Creating Safety and Integrating Fear with Guy and Ilan Ferdman of Satori Prime

Creating Safety and Integrating Fear with Guy and Ilan Ferdman of Satori Prime

Why People Go To Satori Prime?

Mike: You guys run Satori Prime. Let's let Ilan talk, since he hasn't been on the show before. Quick, 30 second, why do people love you?

Ilan: I think we take a lot of the woo from the spiritual mysticism, energy healing space, and make it incredibly practical so that whether you're some Joe off the street, you run a huge company, whatever it is, these are just tools that we've experienced and learned. Guy and I have spent over a million dollars in our education over the last, since 2003 basically. Mentors, coaches, seminars, healers, experiences, et cetera. We just, I think boil down it to its essence where people can get the most value from it.

Mike: I think that's, in the first 20 seconds of your explanation, I go, "Oh, that's why we hang out. That's why we get along, is bringing that practical application of things that seem like magic." A lot of times he will just call something spiritual or magical when they don't understand how it works. Then guys like yourself, as you started learning how things work you're like, "It's not really magic, it's just just how things are. It's an obvious thing."

Ian and Guy Ferman | Source: Facebook

Guy: Line between magic and science, and that thin line is whether it's quantifiable. That's pretty much it.I mean if you think about so many discoveries we have, things we do scientifically, quantum physics, it's all really magic. It's just we can apply mathematics to it and measure it in some way. That's really the only difference between what people, I think perceived as magic or science.

Mike: You come across to me as people who could do anything. If you wanted to go into a different field, if you wanted to go make tens of millions of dollars or whatever, you could. You could run any kind of business and do that. But you chose, you really follow your passion and chose to help people through the path that you guys have gone down.

Ilan: My eight year old and a half year old son, just this morning goes to me, he goes, "Aba," he calls me Aba, which is Hebrew for dad. He goes, "Aba, I bought if you weren't doing coaching for Satori Prime, what else would you do?" It took me all of one nanosecond to go, "There's nothing else that I would do."

Quarantine Life

Work from home
Photographer: Charles Deluvio | Source: Unsplash

Mike: Guy, you're in basically San Diego we'll call it, in a town outside of San Diego. Ilan you're in New York. These are … Y'all are having very different experiences. You grew up in New York, right? For the most part?

Ilan: For the most part

Mike: I'm curious as to Ilan's experience, I'm more familiar with west coast and what's happening with this quarantine. How long have you been in quarantine? What's the process been like for you?

Ilan: We self quarantined probably a week, maybe a week and a half before everyone else. The school shut down and things like that. We were already locked in and kind of, we're only going to go out for absolute necessity. I live outside of New York City, so I'm kind of luckier in that sense. I have a backyard. We have a bigger house. We're not on top of each other. I will say though, wisely, wisely, we decided to start a kitchen construction project at the end of February, so we don't have a finished kitchen.

Our contractor's brother-in-law got sick and sister got sick, so now they can't even come to the house. New York has laws where they can't even bring truck. If they catch a worker truck on the street or whatever, they can fine them, so I have no idea when our kitchen will be done. So we've been living in the basement. So it's been … We got thrown a little curve ball as we went into this whole thing.

Luckily we have a finished basement, but we basically been living like … It's like a New York City apartment I guess, in our basement. So that's what we've been doing. But I have to say, I said this to my mentor yesterday, and I don't mean this in a braggy way, but I actually feel really good. It's almost like part of me feels ashamed to feel as good as I do, given the circumstances of what's happening. That's not to say … Do I have sadness and concern, and worry and frustration? Yes, like everybody else.

There's a lot of really cool things that happen, either at my house, spending time with family and being in a basement where we're closer together and doing all the … I don't know. It's like, I said this on a podcast earlier, I feel like we're all going to look back at these little things, a year or two or whatever from now when we're out of this, and go like, "Do you remember how nice it was when we did this?" I just hope that we get to keep some of the things that have really lit us up over this Corona life as I like to call it.

Guy: Doesn't that just feel good though not to … We talk about this a lot in our coaching, but it's like, "Can you free yourself of the need to achieve in order to feel good about yourself? In order to feel a connection and love and support and safety, because those things are things you develop within yourself, and then they get expressed outside of yourself." Most people are trying to change their outside world to change their inside world, so it's like this.

If there's a gift that anything this has given is like, "Hey, simplify, minimize." Almost get … It's funny, my wife and I, we want a large property. We want to buy 48 acres, something like that. But we actually want to buy, we want to build small container homes. But I want to build like a mansion container home. I know it's ironic. I want to buy a … I want to build a big, tiny home.

I watch a lot of YouTube videos. I do, because I'm fascinated by it because oftentimes it's like the use of space, how it gets implemented there is a very attractive to me. I think what I love about this time right now is it's kind of like forced minimalism for a lot of people. It's almost like, "Hey look, you don't need a lot. You really don't. You don't need to go out there and just buy shit and be a consumer for no reason. The stuff doesn't make you feel good anyway. If anything, it's like now you're not consuming so much. Maybe you feel better." Maybe take a look at that. Or [inaudible 00:11:32] redefining connection right now is a really important. A lot of people think they need people around them, but then they have people around them, and they feel isolated anyway.

It's like, "Is that really connection because you have more quantity of physical-ness around you? Or were you just misinterpreting how you got to receive connection in the first place?" Again, that's something that comes inside. You get to give to yourself first, and then you get to share that expression with other people. So it really has kind of flipped priorities on its head. I think the longer we stay in this, the better for that reason. In terms of people viewing priorities really, really different.

I say this all the time, I'm like, "I really," and I am saying this with understanding that there's a lot of people going through very difficult situations, certainly have maybe like really difficult things happening at home as well, but my personal hope is that it doesn't end quick. I actually hope that we stay in this for a few months. Then it'll challenge people in different ways that are I think are important, if we want to make the type of changes that I hope that we ultimately get to see out of this situation.

Ilan: Whatever your circumstance is, it's just it's there and you're there. All the other distractions that you've used as coping mechanisms or things to not look at this thing are gone, basically gone. So it's like, "There you turn. There you are. There she is. There he is." It's like, " There's no …" But here's the funny part, I was thinking about this. So now people are inside and they're like, "I hate you. I want a divorce." That sucks, but that's kind of always been there. What's the game plan? Where do you go? You're in the same house. You're stuck.

Illuminating Experiences & Patterns

Fushimi Inari in Kyoto
Photographer: Jahan Hussain | Source: Unsplash

Mike: What have you guys experienced for yourselves as far as things that have been illuminated that you didn't notice before, but being put in this situation you now get to see?

Ilan: That's an awesome question. I'll just preface this by saying that the kind of work that we're doing internally for ourselves and with our clients, is instead of trying to understand … So Guy and I played the mindset game since 2003. We were in that world, steeped in it. It got to a point where I just got sick of looking at the same patterns over and over and over. We looked for new methodologies, new mentors, new myths, technology basically.

Mike: Can you explain to people patterns?

Ian: Pattern is like, for me a big one is the story that got created when I was very, very young. I had a story. My parents left. I made it mean that I'm a loser, and then I've lived. I'm a loser showed up a lot, because it shows up in relationships when a relationship fails. It shows up in sports. It shows up in school. It shows up in relationships. It shows up in my health. It shows up, and it was just this ongoing thing.

I would hit this wall, say in business, and the thing would always lead back to that same core story. I'm like, "Oh my God, I'm so nauseated by looking at the same moment in my life a thousand times." I was 30 at the time and I'm going, "Dude, if I do this for like the next 70 years, are you kidding me? This is what I got to deal with every time? Oh, I'm a loser. Okay, let's look at the same scenario again." I was like, "Enough." So, and look, I'm not taking anything away from that work. That work is incredibly valuable. If that's what you're doing, it is life changing. I mean it is.

I was just like, "Okay, there's got to be something else." So that's when we really started to leave the mind and the understanding, and the reframing, and the figuring it out, and were introduced to this whole internal system that prods and pokes, and creates little contractions and bubbles, and holds things inside. What I started to see is that internally there were different parts that got trapped in time. So it wasn't just that Ilan at three and a half that had that moment, but there was a lot of different parts that got trapped in time. They live inside, and they are the ones that are responding to the external environment before the mind comes.

When he gets really scared or really activated, he'll tighten really hard. That's what sends a message to my brain to go, "Holy crap, shit's about to go down. This is bad. We got to fix this." Then the doer just gets online. It's like, "All right. You don't have to feel that. I promise. I told you, you're never going to feel like a loser." It just does its thing. So now before that happens, we've created technology that actually, or been shown technology, that we can heal that part, and let that part feel safer. To feel I'm a loser for example, because I'm a loser was this DEFCON 11, this is really bad. We got to fix this. So now with that work, it's made everything … Because the world is quieter, it's made being with those different aspects so much easier.

One of the things that's really, really become pronounced to me is safety. The part of me that doesn't feel safe, and it could be like uncertainty around my business. Then there's a freak out inside of like, "Oh my God, how are we going to survive? What about our family?" So where the old part used to go is having to figure out how to solve that external problem. How am I going to fix all of this? What's really cool is no one knows the future. No one knows the doors that we're walking out of. No one even knows what's going to happen a week from now. So the part that's trying to quantify and figure out is at a loss. He's like, "I got nothing, because I don't know where it's going to go." So I'm left with a lot more fear basically in the system.

That's what's been really beautiful, is to go and love the parts of me that are scared out of their goddamn minds, and let them feel like it's okay to be that scared. What happens is they relax, not from understanding, not from like figuring stuff out, just from them knowing that I'm there and it's okay for them to process the full gamut of the human emotional scale. Everyone wants to be happy all the time, but it's like, "Happy is one note. There's despair and terror and trauma and sadness and frustration and anger." We're the keyboard of all these things, and I think we're just expanding … Guy and I looking to expand where we can get the entire keyboard to play.

Guy: I mean, I think for most men, we've talked about this before, it's like the human experience. It's either joy or anger. It's like everything else kind of gets suppressed or you kind of have like we're talking about, these patterns and protectors that protect you from really experiencing those things fully. But then you're not really experiencing humanity fully. That creates a lot of misalignment actions that you start taking to try to get things so you don't really have to feel those things. But it never quite works, and you just end up in these loops throughout your entire life.

It's like, I don't know about you guys, but I get, like Ilan said, I'm tired of some of those loops happening over and over again. What I have found is most of personal development is either managing those loops, or trying to create another story so that I like when the loop is happening, it's like, "Oh, divert attention over here and live from this story." But it's not ever really fully being with that experience in a way that allows for you to … I mean, how can you gain safety over something that you've never fully experienced?

If there was an emotion within you that you're not going to fully experience or even the thing that happens in your life that you're not fully experiencing, people know this with grief. If you don't fully experience grief, someone's death or someone leaving, or getting bereavements, you never quite get over that thing. It's probably like one of the most challenging thing that I've seen clients that deal with, that have a death of a parent that they've never said everything to. It's like you just … The grieving doesn't complete and you just keep going through it. If they would be courageous enough to go through the grieving process fully, they'd be free of it too. So it's kind of like that over and over again. It's like we're grieving ourselves. We're grieving our emotions. We're grieving our experiences.

The more that you're willing to like lean into what Ilan described as fear like, "Okay, cool." If you understand that fear is a feedback system that our biomechanical suit is using to show us something, you also know that fear is an incredible source for creativity.

Healthy Response To Fear

Project for Tonik.Health
Photographer: Tonik | Source: Unsplash

Mike: What, in your view, is a healthy response to fear? Because people, I imagine, are experiencing it in waves. One day, it's fine. You get a phone call from somebody, and they've got some news that gets you fired up. I mean, it all started off with, "All right. You're going to get this virus, and you'd probably die, too." Now they're going to force you to get a vaccine that's not been tested appropriately, and people are freaking out about that. I've had my own concerns. What goes from a healthy fear or concern to something that's not useful or something that is holding us back?

Guy: Well, let's use that experience with you. I think it's a good example, right? So when everything started shifting very quickly, and it's funny. We reached out when we were both at the fever pitch of fear for each other, because a lot of different, like you said, pieces of information started coming through, and it wasn't like … I wasn't afraid about what was coming. It sobered me that it actually was coming. When we were watching on the news and it was happening in China and then moving across, it's like, "Okay, that's a fucked up movie."

But it's like a movie, and then it becomes your life, and you're like … The system is like, "Whoa, whoa, whoa. Are you telling me tomorrow I can't get out of my house?" Freedoms get lost very quickly. There's a lot of stuff like that, but, for me, all fear is inherently healthy.

Guy: Ultimately, it is a few things. Number one, where are you viewing the fear from, and are you going along for the ride with it? Right? So we all have thoughts in our head, and there's two different ways to perceive thoughts. There's "I'm having a thought, and I've got to go and chase it and figure it out," and do all the things that people normally do when they have a thought, especially ones that scare them, or I can be like a passive observer, viewing something, thinking, and I'm just viewing something, thinking. If I'm watching Michael talk about thoughts that he's having, I'm aware that I'm watching Michael talk about thoughts that he's having. The reality is, within ourselves, it's the same thing.

Guy: So if you're passively observing, you're going to probably learn a lot about fear itself as a mechanism of things, because you're not chasing it. You're not getting on what we call the bus ride, right? You can see the bus, but you don't have to go on the bus to go along for the ride. The second thing is when you were afraid, you reached out for support.

That's a really big deal. Most of us, it's like fear comes along with shame and guilt. We don't want to show them we're afraid, because we've been told that fear is no good, you've got to be strong, you've got to figure it out, and you got to … like might is right. So it's like power is more important right now than vulnerability, and that's the irony and the paradox of things, is that vulnerability is power. If you don't have vulnerability with power, then you actually don't have power.

So it's like reaching out for that support and saying, "Hey, look, I could use some reflection," or, honestly, what I think most people miss … It's so simple. We do a really simple exercise. I won't talk about it too much here. We call them minis, and it really is just providing support through presence. Most of the trauma that Ilan mentioned, I'm sure you could talk about your loser story. I could talk about why I think I'm fucking retarded.

All those stories, if you really think about what did the little boy, little girl need when they were being traumatized, is they really wanted an attuned presence from Mom and Dad. They didn't need a solution. They just needed to feel that Mom and Dad were there and that safety's there and they can down-regulate the nervous system. They open up to experience. Then it's okay to experience what they're experiencing. The energy flows through the body liberates. You had an experience, but you're free of it. You're not walking around like it's now clamped onto you and you've got to walk around with it.

As adults, that doesn't change. What worked as a child works as an adult. Most of our parents didn't have attunement, the presence, education, or experiences to know how to do that. So it really is on each one of us to, first of all, give that to ourselves, that level of attunement, presence, and attention when we're going through, quote unquote, difficult experiences.

Find People Who Can Offer You Presence

Guy: The second thing is find people who can really offer you presence when you're going through those experiences. It's extraordinarily healing for the other person, for both people, really, and it's so simple. That's why a lot of people miss it. It's like really all you want is presence right now.

Ilan: Because I think now is a really good time to have this conversation around fear. Every single human on planet earth has been thrown into an environment that is unknown. As soon as we are put in an environment of unknown, our fear kicks in. That's what it does, right? Because our mind, the brain is a predictive mechanism. So it is constantly trying to predict the future you are walking into. That's why you have a choose your own adventure movie in your head. It's like, "Okay, I'm going to do this in my business, and if this happens, then I'm going to do this."

But we're at this point right now where it's like the screen has gone black, and that part that wants to predict can't, because it's like, "I don't know what happens past this move."

I'll just say this before. The actions you take are irrelevant. It's the energy behind the action that creates the end result. If we are in a fear state, and when we're in a fear state, we have certain protective strategies and patterns and techniques that we've all developed that make us feel better in the moment, whatever that is for you.

There's people who avoid, right? They're like the people who kind of stick their head in the sand. They're like, "I'm not dealing with this." There's other people who get super, super anxious about what's happening. It's like, "I've got to know. I've got to know." There's people that hoard, because, again, we're looking for safety, right? There's people who are just information junkies right now. It's like, "Information is going to make me feel safer."

Ilan: The part that I think is so interesting, it's like people's patterns are on loudspeaker. It's like the second I mentioned that, you're like, "Oh my buddy is this." I think we're all in some sort of WhatsApp group, and you can literally watch in the WhatsApp group who's running what pattern. There's the ones that are just sending memes. They're like, "I don't give a shit about anything that's happening," the one that's sending article after article and video after … It's interesting to watch as we all do this.

So what I would offer is if we act from fear, if we get on that bus and ride the fear bus and we act from that place and we let the pattern dictate the next action, what that actually does is it puts us in this loop, because now the energy behind the action is fear, which then creates some sort of circumstance where fear is going to loop back in. So you put yourself on this fear cycle, which is not actually like this. Fear is one of those things that it's like a toilet bowl. It just gets down, and you get to this place, you're like, "Holy fuck. What is happening in my life?"

Just knowing that, even having that awareness to go like, "Oh, am I just reacting out of fear to just make myself feel okay in the moment?", and then having that moment of pause where, for 10 seconds, you just go internal and just sit with the part of you that is freaking the fuck out right now and just be with it. Be like, "Okay, I'm freaking the fuck out right now," and you'll notice that, in 10 seconds, 30 seconds, the tension and the stress and all that stuff, kind of it does what it does, and it will start to dissipate. If it doesn't take 30 seconds, it'll take two minutes.

Then allow that to just process through, and now, from that calmer state, now choose your next action. That gets you out of that fear loop, quote unquote, and into just a new pathway. That doesn't mean that fear won't show up. It's just you're not choosing from fear and creating more and more and more of that in your life.

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